The Ambitious Nurse | RN, Nursing Career, Nursing Job Opportunities

35 //Can the CNS Role Be Your Catalyst for Nursing Career Advancement? Find Out How w/NACNS President Dr. Jennifer Manning DNS, ACNS-BC, CNE, FCNS

• Bonnie Meadows • Episode 35

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Can passion, communication, and confidence transform an introverted nurse into a leader?

 In this episode, we are honored to have Dr. Jennifer Manning, President of the National Association for Clinical Nurse Specialists, who recounts her inspiring transition from a background in biology and research to becoming a CNS. Dr. Manning talks about how Hurricane Katrina influenced her career choices and discusses the global outlook for the future of the CNS role, offering invaluable strategies for career advancement.

What makes a Clinical Nurse Specialist truly effective? We explore the quintessential qualities that define a successful CNS, emphasizing the importance of continuous self-improvement, resilience, and passion.

The growing integration of AI in healthcare and its implications for lifelong learning is also a key topic. Additionally, we shed light on the current job market and salary expectations for CNS positions, providing actionable advice on how to navigate the challenges and seize the opportunities for creating or finding CNS roles post-graduation.

The power of Clinical Nurse Specialists to drive systemic change in healthcare is immense. In this episode, we uncover how CNSs can implement innovative projects that enhance patient outcomes and foster interdisciplinary collaboration.

Dr. Manning and I discuss the critical role of networking, engaging with professional organizations, and pursuing specific passion projects to make substantial contributions to the field.

We also tackle myths surrounding the CNS role, clarifying misconceptions and underscoring the importance of collaboration with Nurse Practitioners. Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation filled with practical advice and insights for both aspiring and current CNSs.

Links and Resources:

Tune in for an enriching conversation that highlights the power of the CNS role in healthcare, from bedside care to leadership and beyond!

Want to continue the conversation? Send me a text right here.

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Speaker 1:

The CNS is on the rise. One thing COVID did. That was good. It showed that there is a need and the CNS was able to highlight their value during that time.

Speaker 2:

Are you feeling stuck in your current clinical environment? Do you want to make a change in your nursing career but not sure what to do next? Exhausted, burnt out and maybe even ready for different leadership? I'm Bonnie Meadows, a board-certified clinical nurse specialist, influential leader, career coach and well-being coach. Being in the nursing and healthcare profession since 2004, I have felt stuck and unsure about what was next for me. I wanted to be fulfilled in my purpose, to have a voice at the table and to be a resource for others. I kept telling myself I wanted more, but didn't have the direction I needed, Until I found clarity and career growth strategies for experienced nurses like me. In this podcast, you will find simple tactical steps that allow you to gain the clarity you need, solutions for how to grow even without supportive leadership, and guidelines for setting boundaries at work, so that you can grow purposefully in your career as a nurse with a graduate degree who makes a huge impact in the profession. So get ready to trade your scrubs for yoga pants, Pop in those earbuds and let's chat.

Speaker 2:

I am excited to have Dr Jennifer Manning on the podcast today. She is the president for the National Association for Clinical Nurse Specialists. I am a clinical nurse specialist. I've been a clinical nurse specialist for four years. If you've been listening to this podcast, you know that I've been in nursing for about 20 years. Dr Manning is a board certified adult health clinical nurse specialist. She completed her bachelor's, master's and doctoral degrees at Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center School of Nursing, Go Tigers.

Speaker 2:

Dr Manning began her nursing career as a critical care registered nurse and currently serves as the Associate Dean for Undergraduate Nursing Programs at Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center School of Nursing. Her teaching responsibilities include educating both the DNP and PhD programs at Louisiana State Health Sciences Center School of Nursing, and Dr Manning serves as the nurse researcher at East Jefferson General Hospital. She is a board member for both the National Association for Clinical Nurse Specialists and the Louisiana State Board of Nursing. I am very excited for you to hear this conversation between Jennifer and I. She drops some great nuggets and a great global perspective on the role of the CNS and what it will look like in the future and where it's going. We had a great conversation just about how even the CNS advances their careers and how do you identify yourself as the CNS role being the better role for you if you are considering a APRN or Advanced Practice Registered Nurse role. So take a listen, take notes and let me know what you think. All right, so I am so happy to have you here.

Speaker 2:

I want to get started with asking you to start off more so with your personal journey to becoming a clinical nurse specialist.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. I want to start out by expressing my appreciation for you having me today, and I am thrilled to share my personal journey. I started out in my healthcare journey by getting my first baccalaureate degree in biology. I thought in my mind my very young, immature mind that I was going to get my PhD in pharmacology and I was going to go into drug development. That was my thought in the mid-90s and landed my first job in a research lab after graduating. There were no nurses in my family, no clinical nurse specialists, no registered nurses, and I wound up working with a various group of medical doctors and we were looking at different medications, doing research on cell models, and so it was really fascinating work. I'm in New Orleans, louisiana, and that'll become important later. I did that work for a couple of years, developed a good rapport with those physicians and our lab was next to the hospital and it was a children's hospital. Sometimes they would pull me in to go with them to see some of the patients, different things like that. Over time they recommended I said I've always wanted to go back, I want to get my PhD, so I really need to go back and get my graduate degree. And they said well, have you ever thought about nursing? We just really see something in you that you may not see in yourself. I said, well, you know, over time I said, well, I guess I'll give it a go. You'll have to give me some support. I don't know much about being a nurse. I love seeing nurses in action but I don't know anyone who's a nurse. I don't know how to navigate. And so they did work with me, they did help me and I went to nursing school while working there and then subsequently graduated.

Speaker 1:

When I graduated from the nursing program, I went to work in the hospital as a critical care nurse in the ICU. But I kept my job at that research line because we were grant funded. I had a lot of important experiments and I loved that work. So I did two jobs. Then, in 2005, hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, as many know. In 2005, hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, as many know, many of us all of us had to move away. I had two young boys at the time, my husband and I. We had to move away for several months and I lost all my experiments and so when I got back, I you know, really everyone was. You know you have to make lemonade out of lemons. Because there was so much happening, my husband actually changed jobs. I subsequently did not go back to the lot and I went to the hospital full time. So I still wanted to go back to school and so I informed my director at the hospital hey, I'm going to work at the hospital but I am going to go to graduate school. I don't know yet what I'm going to do, but I'm going to go to graduate Working in a critical care unit.

Speaker 1:

A lot of ICU nurses typically talk about becoming a nurse anesthetist. That's a very common leap. So I went and shadowed a CNS and determined that's definitely not what I wanted to do. There was also a clinical nurse specialist working in that OR who I met and she said why don't you come see what I do? And when I found out that they link together research with education, with healthcare, improving outcomes in healthcare I knew that was for me. So I enrolled in a program at the time it was not a doctorate, it was a master's and I finished that program, stayed at the same hospital but also took a joint appointment at the college where I was doing that research Louisiana State University. So now I'm an advanced practice registered nurse, working at the hospital and teaching nursing students. So I did that for several years, and then I'll still decided to go back and finally get that doctorate, and I did finish that doctorate in 2014. With that, it offered me some open doors to move up in the college, and I did finish that doctorate in 2014. With that, it offered me some open doors to move up in the college, and I'm now the associate dean at Louisiana State University School of Nursing in New Orleans, and so I do a little bit of work at the hospital, but not as much.

Speaker 1:

But that's my journey, and I think all those pieces and parts are so important because anyone out there listening I want them to know, even if you don't know a nurse in the family and, by the way, there's a bunch of nurses in my family now who have come behind me. Now my daughter wants to go to nursing school. She just graduated from high school, and so it just makes me beam with excitement to see that others will follow behind me in this very rewarding career, and I hope that she will continue on to become a clinical nurse specialist. Some have gone on to become nurse practitioners and other fields. All needed, all important.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was the right place for me. I tell everyone, including my children first think of what brings you joy. And what brings me joy is having that varied role and having the ability to. Some days I'm doing research, some days I'm ability to. Some days I'm doing research, some days I'm educating and some days I'm seeing a patient, some days I'm working alongside other nurses to help make things at the hospital better, and I just couldn't be happier. I mean, I just got the dream job of a lifetime.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I always say the CNS role is definitely the best of all worlds, especially if you're one of those people who you don't want to just fit into. Just this one thing. And again, like you, I love my colleagues. I love my CRNA colleagues, my NP colleagues, all of them. We all work together. When you are that one who wants to do just a little bit of this, you want to do a little bit of that, you still have a lane as a clinical nurse, specialist, really say, a good fit. But what qualities do you or should you have when you are thinking about going to school to be a cloud water specialist and you have to choose between? You know the, the glamorous role and the cns role for us is glamorous, but you don't know it until you like get into it. You're like oh, this.

Speaker 1:

So the qualities I will say just to preface anyone out there listening. Don't think you have to have all those qualities right now. The qualities I have today are a result of an ongoing development which every single day I'm striving to improve myself. When I started out as a registered nurse, and even before then, my personality was very introverted. I love to read, I love to do puzzles, I'm very happy in my own space of solitude and would never have envisioned I would have become a president of a national organization one day, or a clinical nurse specialist for that matter. So I will say the quality is to be passionate about the work. So I will say the quality is to be passionate about the work. That's one that comes to mind. You really need to understand the role because it's not that straightforward to everyone. You will have to explain it over the course of your years. I've been a CNS since 2007 and have still explaining it today, and so that's okay.

Speaker 1:

I will say that one of the most important qualities for a CNS to have is your willingness to put yourself out there and our reason. I say that is because of the varied role that we have. Working with patients comes very natural. We develop that in our undergraduate nursing programs. But working with a CEO, a CFO, even a CNO, could be intimidating, and so you want to ensure that in your training they help you get out there. That's what my school did for me. They had me. Yeah, I got to go talk to, yeah, you're going to talk to them and you're going to ask them how much can we spend on that huge technology that we're bringing to the hospital? And hey, by the way, it's going to save this many millions of dollars. So you have to be able to navigate sometimes all in one day in and out of these different settings, talking with different people, and not be intimidated or at least find a way to develop the skill and the confidence that you know what you need to know to get what you need to get to improve healthcare. And so that I had to develop I mean, being an introverted person, you don't spend a lot of time developing your communication skills but they gave me that confidence that I needed, and they also instilled in me that you don't need to be an extrovert, you just need to do your homework. You need to come prepared and ready, and that is what they taught me to do, and I do believe that's critical for a CNS.

Speaker 1:

Now, obviously, the other pieces that are absolutely important is the highest levels of professionalism in nursing. You're a role model to the nurses out there and you can't forget that they're always watching. You know how you manage yourself. Are you early to the meeting or are you late? Are you prepared, are you kind, are you respectful?

Speaker 1:

And those basic things go such a long way in our profession where it's so easy for us to get a little. You know. You know it's tiring work and it's so easy for us to get a little. You know you know it's tiring work and it's tough work, and we have some really hard days, especially coming out of COVID. I reflect a lot on that and how hard it was for me and everyone else, and so you really need to be willing to do the self-work that's needed, to have that resilience and make sure you find that joy and that gratitude every day and be a lifelong learner.

Speaker 1:

That's another quality. You need to be willing. I mean, boy, I'm having trouble keeping up and I love to learn, I love to read, and everyone out there is having trouble. My most recent endeavor is trying to learn how AI can help us, and I know it can make our work better. I know it can help patient outcomes, I know it can help seeing us as being more efficient and effective, but we've got to understand it. That's not what we learned in school, so we have to embark on some lifelong learning and find some tools to help us find our way.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and the AI I believe as long as you put the clinical nurse specialist to work, they can definitely figure out the best way to fit it into the nurse's workflow so that it's safe and you are able to the nurse is able to optimize their work. So we look forward to what you all do with that within our national organization to give us guidance. And so, as you say that, I thought of a question when you came out of nursing school or when you went back to get your degree as a clinical nurse specialist, were there already roles available or jobs available, or did you have to create the role and that sometimes is a piece of hesitancy of nurses wanting to? You know they want, they actually want to go back to school to be a clinical care specialist, but then they don't see anything on the job board for it, so then they just decide to take a different role. So talk to me about that.

Speaker 1:

Sure. So the answer to the first question is both. There were some jobs available and then there also was an opportunity to create. So really I had both opportunities available to me At the time, just like in a lot of areas of the country, some of our hospitals in our greater New Orleans area were moving more to a system level and we've seen the results of that over the last 20, 25 years.

Speaker 1:

That was occurring as well, and boy, they were looking to hire 10, 15 CNSs. So we were right on the cusp of them starting. There was another hospital that had not yet become a system it since has but they also were very interested. But I would have needed to write that position. The good news is that the university where I went to school really worked with me in both of those endeavors, and so they helped me through that piece. But I will say, touching on your second comment about the fear on the back end of finding that position, I did a little Googling in preparation for our podcast and I would recommend anyone out there take a little look on some of your popular sites where you can search for jobs clinical nurse specialists and look at those different opportunities out there. I hadn't looked in a long time and boy, the salaries were impressive. So I will just say I wasn't really surprised by how high they were. There were a number of jobs out there. I didn't spend a whole lot of time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but.

Speaker 1:

I will say to anyone out there who's concerned about that or is not sure do you know this? The CNS is on the rise. One thing COVID did that was good. It showed that there is a need and the CNS was able to highlight their value during that time. So we are definitely seeing some opening of programs. We're also seeing closing of programs. So one may ask why. I know I asked and it's really just regional. The CNS is definitely a regional position.

Speaker 1:

You see a lot more CNSs in some pockets of the country, less in others. You need to find out where you are. If you're in one of those pockets where there's a lot of growth, you're going to see those positions not too far away when you graduate and you're looking to get in that position. If you're in a pocket where it's a little less visible, you may have to do some different type of work and that would be go talk to those chief nursing officers and find out. Are you looking to create a CNS position? And, by the way, let me show you the benefits and there's good literature out there, especially in the CNS Journal, showing the impact the CNS can make in an organization.

Speaker 1:

But do be prepared, you may have to write your own job description. There is help out there. The National Association just released a toolkit called Grow your Own, led by Jan Powers, and in that toolkit there is some instruction on how to write a job description. So the resources are out there, even if your own school doesn't offer them. Or maybe you're looking to move around to an area where there's fewer CNSs, where there's fewer CNSs. But I would encourage anyone don't be fearful. I have not heard of anyone who didn't quite find the job that they needed, but I do know people who had to work a little harder and do a few more steps if they were in those pockets where there were fewer CNSs and they weren't as prevalently used in the hospitals.

Speaker 2:

Okay, thank you for that. Sure, that is very helpful and it's very encouraging. And as you talk about the CNS being on the rise, let's talk about the role, the importance of the role of the CNS. Sure, absolutely. So what do you feel like is the number one? I'm not going to necessarily say selling point, but I would say maybe the top two or three reasons why the CNS role is important to an organization.

Speaker 1:

So I'm glad you asked that. So something I didn't mention earlier that I can mention now, which drew me to the CNS role, was impact, the ability to impact large groups. There is the one-to-one a nurse, practitioner and even a CNS. You could be with a patient in an outpatient clinic making a difference, one patient at a time. But for those who might get some energy, like myself, from making an impact at a system level that is one of the why If you really want to make change, decrease fall rates and decrease readmission rates, to improve length of stay in a hospital, if you want to tackle that across an entire hospital or a system that may cover one or two or three more states, the CNS rule could be very well for you, because that is where we really shine. You really are able to make a difference in very large groups. It's a little bit like doing research. When you're doing research, you're advancing science, and so if you disseminate that research, it can have an impact on anyone who really touches the work and then carries it on into practice. And to me, that's where the CNS really makes. That's one of the big ones that comes to my mind. The other is, of course, they improve care across hospital systems. But another area that we talk about with those three spheres which is direct care, hospital systems and then, of course, with the nurses is if you really enjoy working with the nursing staff and helping them improve care and that's another area that I really love doing the CNS role would be a huge one for you. So there are some of us who spend a little bit of our time with patients and then a lot of time in the more system level or with the nurses, or we kind of split it across the three versus others who may be a hundred percent in one area, like the system level.

Speaker 1:

The other big one is, to me, innovation. I mean, because you're doing something so new and different. It requires you to look at a problem and you don't have all the rules and the policies in place. You're starting it from scratch. And so if you have a lot of that innovative spirit where you want to kind of start something and really piece it together, and you have the energy and the drive to do it, that's going to be the role for you, because we look at big, big, big things and we make them happen, we make them come to life, and then we monitor them, we watch them things and we make them happen, we make them come to life and then we monitor them. We watch them and we see all the different people that we have, and so that's pretty exciting work.

Speaker 2:

That is very exciting and it's exciting to know that there are just so many different facets to the role. And then you talk about the innovative piece and I call that a little bit of the problem solving also. Like you see a problem and you're like, oh, I got to. Then you talk about the innovative piece and I call that a little bit of the problem solving also. Like you see a problem and you're like, oh, I gotta fix that.

Speaker 2:

I gotta, and you're that person, you're like I mean, that needs to be fixed. Yeah, that that is. That is definitely important, an important piece of the role, absolutely. And so how does the CNS work with all of the other roles, whether it be an NP or a CRNA or the other disciplines, the physician, the respiratory therapist, the physical therapist, all of those roles? What are some examples of how they work together with those roles?

Speaker 1:

examples of how they work together with those roles. So that is a really important piece that you must develop some comfort in, and that's networking. And so when I say networking, what I mean is networking all the time with everyone that you are working with, and it goes back to one of the earlier things I said keeping in mind those basics professionalism, role modeling but you always want to be asking some good questions, finding out who the players are, and so that's where you can work with those other roles. You also need to be there, I mean, and what I mean by that is you need to be. If there's an advanced practice council, you should be on it. You should be working with those different members, you should be leading it. You should be not just sitting in the back, you know, just being a member and showing up for the meetings, but also making a change and making a difference. The other is and that's why that would be a very classic example for me is making sure that I'm visible in my role On my advanced practice council. I make sure that I'm not just there but I'm also working with all the different players, because in our facility it's supported by the physicians, and so making sure that collaboration is going and going and consistent, because we all need to be intertwined in order for care to advance and to be better. The other is making sure that the other players know what you're doing, because you can't do it alone. These jobs are too big for you to really be boots on the ground. I mean, you want to be there because you want to show that you're willing to do what needs to be done, but you can't be everyone, and so I almost, when I'm working with others in the hospital across different disciplines so that could be physicians, or it could be nurses, physical therapists, pharmacy when they ask for my expertise, I always say yes. Not necessarily is it always in my job description, but I can think of a recent example where there was a pharmaceutical resident and they were seeking some help with an evidence-based practice project. They were a little lost and normally I don't do that. I'm really kind of just assigned to the work with the nurses, but I took them under my wing, worked with them and it really was a great experience. But I did more than just work with them. I also built a relationship with the pharmacy department and that was critical to help me get that work done but other work done, and so it's really about networking and making sure that people know that I'm a clinical nurse specialist. That's always important. Let them know what I do and who I am, what I am, and but also showing them what is a clinical nurse specialist. You know, really just you know.

Speaker 1:

When you hear those problems and those leadership meetings and asking a few more questions, well, let's talk about why that might be. You know, can we talk about some of the barriers or challenges and then, like you said, tackling it and just saying well, wait a second, do we have the right people in the room? Maybe we're missing IT? You know where's IT? This sounds like it's got an IT issue going with it. So to me, that's where working with the roles is. Being there, yeah, makes sense, and maybe it's not just physically being there but also being passionate about improving care across the system, regardless of whether it falls in your department or not, because the CNS you find them all over the place. But really it's making sure everyone is aware of your role and how you can make an impact and truly being it as wherever you can be can make an impact. And truly being it as wherever you can be. And then also creating mentees, creating others like little CNSs around you and making sure that they're helping you because you can't do it all yourself.

Speaker 2:

It's impossible, it's just too much work to do. Absolutely, there's definitely collaboration. That absolutely has to happen when you're in the NS role and definitely you did a great job of really just kind of bringing us through. What does that collaboration look like? How does so you decide that you want to become a CNS and you've given us an example of how you've advanced in your CNS career as far as where you are and professor within Louisiana State University and also president of NACNS. That is still a growth progression. What are some other things that someone coming into the role of the CNS? Of course they're like, oh, yeah, well, this is what I want to do. But once you get here, you're like, okay, yeah, I want to still grow just a little bit more. What should that CNS look forward to?

Speaker 1:

Okay, so I haven't forgotten where I came from, even though I have come on a long journey and still am surprised where I am. I would tell that person don't be afraid to start small. And what I mean by that is I remember working in the early days and just volunteering to do audits something so simple in my mind but was so needed on that hospital, in that unit. And those little things went much further than I ever could really have imagined because of what it was doing is it was showing other people that I'm willing to do more than just come to work every day. The other and so that was taking on more opportunities as they become available or seeking them in the workplace. The other avenue that you really should consider is working within organizations. So if you have a state affiliate withinACNS, by all means start small. Just join. Just simply join and get access to the resources. Go to their meetings, their conference and network and then maybe even consider a little bit of a leap to doing something small in the national organization. Just volunteer to be on a committee, go to the annual conference, do something little and then just slowly kind of get your feet wet, comfortable and then move your way up. It'll come naturally to you if you're very enthusiastic about it. You show passion and you're making a difference, and so I think that's where I saw my growth kind of occur. I started small and I just didn't ever think in a million years it would lead me to where I am. I still can't. But I started small and I didn't realize it. But now, looking back, there were others who noticed me and they noticed huh, she's got, she's got it under control, she gets it. And so they would support me, maybe trying this, something else, and then something else. And it grew and then it led me to a place where I still can't believe what I've achieved. That would be. My recommendation is just you just start small.

Speaker 1:

Find an area that you're really passionate about. When I mentor others and I do a lot of I often try to find out what are they passionate about, and it's interesting, not everyone is very clear about what that is, but when you ask enough questions it starts to emerge and then I'll say that's the ticket. Pursue something in that direction. If your real passion is something very specific in that hospital, then go to the quality department. Talk to them. What are they working on in that hospital? Then go to the quality department, talk to them. What are they working on in that area? You know, if you're passionate about something in the ER or something with case management, go talk to those groups and then start small with a project that you're really passionate about.

Speaker 1:

Because you're going to be so passionate about it, you're going to be working on it all the time, and even when you're driving home from work you'll be thinking in your mind how can we make this better? And it'll come through in your work. So I hope that kind of helps. But of course, education is another way, getting another degree, advancing your education, certification those are often the things that people think of. But I will say there's so many other opportunities in the workplace joining a committee, helping on an initiative, like when we're working on Magnet, all hands on deck, everybody's working on Magnet. So that's a place where you can come in and even if you handle something small, it's so appreciated. Everybody needs help there, and so those are the areas that I would say you know I would recommend on how to advance. Thank you, I don't think.

Speaker 1:

I have any other question I did see one where you said debunking the myth that the CNS role is diminishing. I know that we talked a little bit about. You know, the growth of programs and how COVID really shined a light and I'm not totally sure where that's coming from. I will say, from a numbers perspective, from the national organization, we're pretty steady. We do have programs opening this past year and then we had a couple of them that closed. So we're steady in our numbers and in our growth.

Speaker 1:

I think what may be contributing is, as the CNS is kind of flat, the NPs have increased and maybe that's what's causing the confusion. But I am consistently saying to people in the CNS world and people outside the CNS world stop panicking, it all is going to work out the way it's going to work out. When I became a CNS there were more CNSs than NPs. It doesn't bother me that there'sS there were more CNSs than MPs. It doesn't bother me that there's more MPs now than CNSs. We know why they're there because people need them. They need them. Why don't we, instead of worrying about who's got more numbers than the other, how we can work together to make healthcare better and making sure that we have a voice for CNSs and that we're visible in organizations, the public, all of those who would have an impact on having us hired to help improve outcomes in their area. And so to me the answer is they're not diminishing, but maybe that's contributing.

Speaker 1:

I'm not sure, but if anything that tells me we need to have more of a voice, contributing, I'm not sure, but if anything that tells me we need to have more of a place. And so every CNS that I meet I tell them make sure, even if your title is ethicist I know a handful of CNSs who are nurse ethicists in the hospital or advanced practice nurse ethicists tell them, make sure they know you're a clinical nurse specialist. I know you're working in one of those spheres, but make sure you're clear You're a clinical nurse specialist, even if your title that you've had for a very long time doesn't say that. Make sure that they know and that's critical. And so my lab coat I don't have it on, but it's got a very sparkly CNS. People can see it, it sparkles in the lights. But I just want to make sure that they're aware that that's what I am and that's what I do, even though I might not portray that very easily in all facets of where I'm working.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. I am now currently like more so in a nurse educator role in our transition to practice program. But my badge says CNS, because that's who I am and my colleagues they will always address me as she is a CNS and my colleagues they will always address me as she is a CNS. That's right and that is the brain I work with all the time. So, yeah, I totally agree Always make sure that people know that's where you work, that's where you came from. I know our previous system levels nurse executive. She was a CNS. There's a president of a hospital in the area that we work, that we work with. That president is she started out as a cns before she worked her way up to the role of president?

Speaker 1:

yeah, she's president. She might not have cns behind her name, but she's president, right exactly.

Speaker 2:

Um, so you know, always just let everyone know. And you just alerted me of a new role I don't think I've ever heard of before An advanced practice nurse ethicist. I know of nurse ethicists, but I've never heard of the role of advanced practice nurse ethicist. Now that is new.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I know a few people in that role locally and nationally. So coming out of COVID, especially with all of the burnout, with all of the very challenging ethical dilemmas that we have, and taking COVID out of the equation, as technology has advanced, we in healthcare know we can do a lot more than we ever realized we could. But sometimes we have to stop and ask ourselves should we do it? And so there are those ethical dilemmas and that's where an advanced practice nurse, a clinical nurse specialist, can really thrive into that field because they may be consulted to help work through those challenging situations. But the other area where I see them working is working with nurses who are faced with severe moral distress and burnout and really are struggling within their profession to get past whatever it is that has gotten them there and they'll work with them to hopefully retain them in the field and help them work through the challenges that they are facing that they can get past.

Speaker 1:

I wouldn't call it like counseling. It's not that. It's just working through those ethical dilemmas and how we're reminding ourselves what we learned back in school that those exist, they will continue to exist and there's no right wrong. It's not black, it's white. There's a lot of gray, but that we can move forward and know that we did the best that we could and keeping us doing the best that we can.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome. What a good way to kind of finalize that question, because so much of that is needed. Yes, and it's a thing you know. Things have sped up because you have probably been in nursing just as long as I have, and things have sped up along the way, and so they occur much faster and we're at a point where we don't have as much downtime as we used to not that we were like kicking back and crossing our feet eating bonbons, but I can tell the difference.

Speaker 1:

I can too.

Speaker 2:

I'll tell people, I'm like I used to carry a pager and they had to wait and he'd come back to the, to the, to the nurse's station, before I could answer a phone can you imagine today?

Speaker 1:

I think that's the core of the problem, because I've had to reflect on that myself, that exact problem, and I'm asking myself why. And I think that's the core, it's because everything is so attainable, so quickly, it's instantaneous, so we don't want to wait anymore because we don't have to wait Right, the technology is there.

Speaker 2:

Right. So in the same way we move our patients along, moral distress happens and we just kind of move along. We're like, okay, we got to go to the next thing. And then we get to that point of burnout and we're like, how in the world did I get here? I don't want to go to work and because we didn't take care of it back there, agreed, agreed. Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to get you but no, it's true, that's a whole.

Speaker 2:

That'll be next podcast there, we go, there we go, absolutely anything else you want to say I don't really think so.

Speaker 1:

But if I had a message for listeners, I would just say you know, I'm Dr Manning, to some I'm Jenny, to some I'm mom. Your power, your abilities, find your passion and go with it and make a difference in the world, because I you can Don't, you know? Stand up proud, be a proud CNS, be a proud registered nurse and represent your profession and represent it well and be confident in your knowledge. And so if I had a message, that would be it Awesome.

Speaker 2:

Actually, I'm going to throw in one last question what do you have on deck for the national organization?

Speaker 1:

I'm glad you asked. So the March annual conference is in Boston and the theme is innovate and I'm so excited about that theme. So what we have next on DAG is we in the next couple of months we'll be getting ready for CNS week that's the first week of September and we have a couple of webinars planned. Some of the big things that we've been working on is making sure that the CNOs and the C-suite and healthcare organizations fully understand the depth of our role, and so I would expect some webinars in that light.

Speaker 1:

We're also doing some interesting things in terms of developing relationships with some organizations. We're used to doing really, you know, building relationships with other nursing organizations, but we're also finding other types of organizations are reaching out and wanting to navigate to network with the CNS supply chain industry for, as an example, wanting to work together because there was so much frustration when supply chains were diminished during COVID and we've seen some hints of that since then and how that affects patients, and there's been this huge realization that healthcare doesn't understand why that happens and so subsequently, everyone just gets frustrated. But why don't we educate people along the way? The other is artificial intelligence. I'll bring that back.

Speaker 1:

And looking at how AI can help us improve and enhance healthcare. That is a learning curve that everyone should be on, and in ACNS it's no different. And then, of course, the planning for the conference is underway, and you know those are some of the big ones that we've got coming, and so there's some really exciting work there. And so just keep an eye out on NACNS for announcements for different webinars. We're trying to have them about every other month and then also, if you're a member, read the communique. It's like our newsletter comes out quarterly Lots of great information about all the great things going on at NACNS and where all of our members are doing great things getting the word out about the CNS role Awesome.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. It was a pleasure having you here today to talk about the CNS role. I'm very excited to have you come on today and thank you for collaborating on this effort.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, Bonnie. It was so nice meeting you and talking to you. I enjoyed it.

Speaker 2:

Nice meeting you too. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. If so, would you take 30 seconds and share it with another nurse who may be unsure of where to go next in their career or maybe need some career clarity? Also, please leave a quick review for the show on Apple podcast. It brings me so much joy and so much encouragement to know this podcast is helping you. Now go get the career you want and not the one you settle for, and I'll meet you back here next Thursday for another episode. See you soon.

People on this episode

Contributor

Bonnie Meadows MSN, APRN, ACCNS-AG

Host

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